Linux Boot Camp 2005

The second annual Linux Boot Camp is currently in the planning stages. Our current plans are to hold the boot camp on two Saturdays in March (from 9AM to 3PM rather than 10AM to 2PM on 3 Saturdays) A Linux Boot Camp is a low-cost installation and training session that strives to be more complete than an installfest. The website for last year's Boot Camp is available with [url=http://www.cinlug.org/bootcamp]more information.[/url] Any comments/questions/suggestions?

Comments

Re: boot camp

What a deal O'Reilly's getting from me then. :) A free review on the hope that it [b]might[/b] produce me a free book.

Well, if a review is required for taking a book, maybe I should grab one when they're available. You know I'm good for the write-up. I do most of them in one sitting.

- T.

Re: boot camp

[quote="tlyons"]Well, having had time to appreciate Kubuntu fully [url=http://www.cinlug.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=Reviews&file=index&req=showcontent&id=8]here's my review[/url].

Without really trying, I've shanghai'd the whole section. :o

At this point, I'd settle for another reviewer producing something at the same scale as "The Claw".

Please? Anyone?

- T.[/quote]

We're supposed to be getting book reviews from anyone who's taken a book as a door prize. I'll try and find out why the book reviews haven't been posted yet.

Re: boot camp

Well, having had time to appreciate Kubuntu fully [url=http://www.cinlug.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=Reviews&file=index&req=showcontent&id=8]here's my review[/url].

Without really trying, I've shanghai'd the whole section. :o

At this point, I'd settle for another reviewer producing something at the same scale as "The Claw".

Please? Anyone?

- T.

Re: boot camp

Thanks, but my computer is fine. :)

Actually that's how it went for one of the [b]boot camp participants[/b] last weekend. His computer was pretty recent (AMD w/ Barton core and a SATA drive). It could install SuSE 9.2 and OpenBSD 3.6 (I think those were the versions) but he kept getting an Error 18 everytime he tried Ubuntu.

- T.

Re: boot camp

Grub error 18: Selected cylinder exceeds maximum supported by BIOS. This error is returned when a read is attempted at a linear block address beyond the end of the BIOS translated area. This generally happens if your disk is larger than the BIOS can handle (512MB for (E)IDE disks on older machines or larger than 8GB in general).

Try an update for your BIOS and/or move your boot partition to the front (or at least into the appropriate range).

Re: boot camp

[quote="schultmc"]
I took some pictures that I need to get posted in the gallery.
[/quote]

"GRUB Error 18"

Do I hear 17? Yes, yes, there it is -- 17.

No! Back to 18!

Going once... [i]mildy annoyed[/i]... going twice... this [b]really[/b] sucks... going 3 times... reformatting the hard drive...

Done!

"GRUB Error 18"

- T.

Re: boot camp

[quote="db"]Michael,

How did the first day of boot camp go?
[/quote]

It went pretty well in my opinion. I took some pictures that I need to get posted in the gallery.

[quote="db"]
I had a wedding to go to today, so I missed it.

Please, let me know if you need addl. help on Sat. May 7 or not.[/quote]

You're more than welcome to come help out if you like. Garrett Held, a former co-worker of mine will be giving a talk on security (security updates, personal firewalls, etc.).

boot camp

Michael,

How did the first day of boot camp go?

I had a wedding to go to today, so I missed it.

Please, let me know if you need addl. help on Sat. May 7 or not.

Re:Linux Boot Camp 2005

I've installed [url=http://kubuntu.org]Kubuntu[/url] on a spare computer. It installed very nicely, configuring the video and sound without problems. I haven't tried all the software on it yet, but most everything I have tried seems to work fine. One exception: Kynaptic does not load reliably (for me, at least). Apt-get and Aptitude work fine though (which is what I prefer anyway). Firefox is not included, and Kubuntu wants to install Gnome if you try to install it afterward, but again, I can live with that. Konqueror is fine by me.

Bottom line: I still think genuine Debian is the cat's meow, but this is a great first release of Kubuntu, and a fine choice for someone that wants Debian power with Ubuntu simplicity and the KDE Desktop.

- T.

Re:Linux Boot Camp 2005

[quote="Anonymous"]Why a "debian Based distro" and not the real thing.
[/quote]

Debian-based distros are often easier to install for people unfamiliar with Debian. The attendees of the first boot camp were for the most part unfamiliar with Linux and I'd like to advocate Debian for those people without throwing them straight into the deep end, so to speak :)

[quote="Anonymous"]
P.S. I like KDE! Gnome is boring and windows'ish.
[/quote]

I prefer Gnome and I'm teaching the class, so pbbbbth! :) But seriously, Kubuntu (a KDE centric version of Ubuntu) will be mentioned and available for those who prefer KDE.

[quote="Anonymous"]
P.P.S. Why am I having so much trouble logging in to the CINLUG forums?[/quote]

I don't know - as long as you login at http://www.cinlug.org/user.php?op=loginscreen&module=NS-User or http://www.cinlug.org/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=login before posting, you shouldn't show up as Anonymous.

Re:Linux Boot Camp 2005

P.S. P.S. P.S. ! I AM NOT A GUEST! I AM x86odyssey!

Re:Linux Boot Camp 2005

Why a "debian Based distro" and not the real thing.
P.S. I like KDE! Gnome is boring and windows'ish.
P.S. P.S. Why am I having so much trouble logging in to the CINLUG forums?

Re:Linux Boot Camp 2005

I too, was not super impressed with Ubuntu but the gnome desktop is pretty nice. I have usually leaned towards Simply Mepis for full blown desktops. I guess I am spoiled from using Damn Small all the time but the Ubuntu install seemed to take FOREVER! :) Either one should work just fine for a new person trying Linux. I will sure try to be there to learn and to help if needed.

Chris
No Computer Left Behind, Inc.

Re:Linux Boot Camp 2005

[b][u]ATTENTION EVERYONE[/u]:[/b]

Dave is a [i]very sick[/i] man. And he didn't take his medication today. ;)

But seriously folks, KDE is very comfortable if you're migrating from Windows. If you switch on KDE's translucent menus and transparent application windows it also [i]looks cooler[/i] than Windows XP (admit it -- it matters, and... you're shallow :lol: ).

Try it. Or try both.

- T.

Re:Linux Boot Camp 2005

Down with KDE! Long live GNOME! C Rules! C++ Sucks! Ha. J/K.

Re:Linux Boot Camp 2005

[quote="tlyons"][quote="schultmc"]I'm leading the Spring Boot Camp (Desktop focus) and am leaning toward [url=www.ubuntu.com]Ubuntu[/url] for the distro.[/quote]

I didn't have the best luck with Ubuntu, but from talking to others I guess I'm in a small minority. :wink:

I think I already said that I'd totally be in favour of a Debian-based distro though, and given the alternatives (like Mepis and Libranet, which are more commercially driven).

- 5.04 or 4.10?
[/quote]

I've got several copies of 4.10 that I could hand out, but I'd like to use 5.04. I've burned myself a copy of 5.04 to try out but I haven't done much other than install it yet. I ordered a bunch of 5.04 discs from [url=http://shipit.ubuntulinux.org]shipit.ubuntulinux.org[/url] but don't know if they'll arrive before the boot camp. If they don't, I'll probably stick with 4.10.

[quote="tlyons"]
- Will Kubuntu be given as an option, or given a mention?
[/quote]

I plan on at least mentioning Kubuntu and may have a few copies to hand out. I'm partial to GNOME myself, but I realize that some people prefer KDE and don't want to exclude anyone.

Re:Linux Boot Camp 2005

[quote="schultmc"]I'm leading the Spring Boot Camp (Desktop focus) and am leaning toward [url=www.ubuntu.com]Ubuntu[/url] for the distro.[/quote]

I didn't have the best luck with Ubuntu, but from talking to others I guess I'm in a small minority. :wink:

I think I already said that I'd totally be in favour of a Debian-based distro though, and given the alternatives (like Mepis and Libranet, which are more commercially driven), Unbuntu is fine.

- 5.04 or 4.10?

- Will Kubuntu be given as an option, or given a mention?

- T.

Re:Linux Boot Camp 2005

[quote="db"]Why not use Knoppix 3.7 we have a crap-load of disks already made! <grin>

Don't take me too seriously, but we could at least give those out at the bootcamp as a Live-cd Linux option for fun.

I hope I'll be able to help out...when are you planning on announcing the bootcamp? And where are we planning to advertise the event to fill it up?[/quote]

I'll talk to Kim to make sure Virtual Scavenger's is available for our desired dates than I'll update the Boot Camp page and send out an announcement.

Re:Linux Boot Camp 2005

Why not use Knoppix 3.7 we have a crap-load of disks already made! <grin>

Don't take me too seriously, but we could at least give those out at the bootcamp as a Live-cd Linux option for fun.

I hope I'll be able to help out...when are you planning on announcing the bootcamp? And where are we planning to advertise the event to fill it up?

Re:Linux Boot Camp 2005

Ubuntu sounds plenty good to me. Looking forward to seeing you all at the bootcamp. Thanks!

Re:Linux Boot Camp 2005

[quote="Anonymous"]There hasn't been a post on this topic for quite a while. Are we making any progress towards choosing a distro and a date?[/quote]

We're thinking about April 30 and May 7 and will setup an information and registration section once the dates have been determined.

I'm leading the Spring Boot Camp (Desktop focus) and am leaning toward [url=www.ubuntu.com]Ubuntu[/url] for the distro (I'm partial to [url=www.debian.org]Debian[/url] and Ubuntu has a nice Debian based desktop). I'm certainly open to other suggestions.

If anyone has any feedback on dates or other topics relevant to the upcoming Spring Boot Camp, let us know ASAP.

Re:Linux Boot Camp 2005

There hasn't been a post on this topic for quite a while. Are we making any progress towards choosing a distro and a date?

Spring 2005 Boot Camp

i briefly spoke to michael about the boot camp at the recent techpoint open source software for business peer group meeting...i THINK the plan is to go Desktop in the Spring and Server in the Fall. also, with march so near and Easter coming 3/27, i THINK the plan is to schedule the boot camp in april.

i THINK the plan is to go 2 consecutive saturdays, 9-3 (or 9:30 - 3:30). michael said he could lead the desktop lectures. travis rassat has proposed an outline elsewhere in this forum. i can make arrangements at virtual scavengers. another poster has offered PCs...(sorry, didn't get his name.)

i PROPOSE we nail this down at the 3/2 CINLUG meeting AND that we establish tenative dates for the FALL SERVER BOOT CAMP at the same time.

kim
www.fileengine.com

Systems

Firstly, I just wanted to say hi to everyone as I am (very) new to this group. I did want to offer, if it would be better this way, that I could bring machines from my company. I'm a jr sysadmin at a medium sized corp in Carmel. At any given time I have about 6-10 machines that are not being used and are waiting for me to rebuild them. They are generally P3 500 w/128 RAM, but with no CD installed. Like I said, I just wanted to offer the machines for the time that they would be used, and also to introduce myself. Thanks.

Re:Linux Boot Camp 2005

Hi,

My name is Travis Rassat - I took part in the boot camp last year, and really enjoyed it. If I may offer an opinion, I would suggest a path based on the desktop aimed directly at the Windows people who are afraid to make the jump. Basically a before and after of the most common activities your average PC user would do:

Surf the 'net (you used to use Internet Exploder, allow us to introduce you to Firefox, Mozilla, etc.)
Word Processing/Spreadsheets/Presentations/etc. (Introduction to Open Office and other MS Office replacements)
Connecting a printer
Connecting a digital camera and uploading images
Using a scanner
Navigating the file system
System maintenance (how do you defragment your hard drive in Linux? What do you mean you don't have to?)
Resources for open source software
How to install software
How to install Linux, possibly in a dual boot configuration

... things like that - very high level, average user kinds of things. Stuff for the absolute newbies that have been saying "I've heard about Linux, but how do I use it?" Draw them into the fold by showing them how easy Linux can be and dispell the myths about how it's so difficult to use and that it's for geeks only. The new distros have come such a long way when it comes to fit and finish and ease-of-use, yet I still know quite a few people who get the impression it's still some sort of command line interface that requires a BS in Computer Science to understand.

Just a thought - if it works out with my schedule, I'd love to help out.

Thanks,
Travis

Re:Linux Boot Camp 2005

My read was that there were some very unhappy campers, some fans, and some others on the fence. I like better than 30% satisfaction when it comes to my own data. Personally, I also wouldn't agree to function as some corporation's unpaid beta tester, but I concede that it's everyone's choice to do so. So long as you make frequent backups, you don't risk losing too much.

RH9 R.I.P.

- T.

Re:Linux Boot Camp 2005

Sounds to me like a few squeaky wheels. That same thread has users saying it works great.
I myself have not had problems with it.

Re:Linux Boot Camp 2005

[quote="Misaochankun"]Fedora Core 3 is awfully easy to set up now, compared to anything related to it in the past.[/quote]

I would recommend that people stick to Core 2 (still available at [url=http://linuxiso.org]linuxiso.org[/url]) unless they've really done some reading up about users experiences with Core 3. Threads [url=http://justlinux.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=137200]like this[/url] are popping up from former FC3 users who wish they hadn't updated.

- T.

Re:Linux Boot Camp 2005

Fedora Core 3 is awfully easy to set up now, compared to anything related to it in the past.
The scary thing is how similar to the windows way of installs it was, with it rebooting and doing that bit of post install before logging you in. I've used it professionally as both desktop and server, and it works great. And if I recall correctly, there is an option to install a low cpu power X window manager which might take care of those machines that aren't quite up to the full task.

As far as server vs desktop, I don't think they should be seperated as such. It makes more sense to me to have first a generic OS install just to get the box up, and then to come back the next week to go to all those server components and get them set up the way we like. As far as I am concerned, the only difference between a server and desktop build is the box I set it in, because I tend to run the two identically otherwise.

I will also be a little busy in march dealing with a new house, which is why you haven't heard much out of me since the summer. It's been a rather long process, but fun, and I have pictures on the linux server at home. The 9am time is a little evil though, but I agree that it seemed like these boot camps just needed to last longer. Either way, I will try to see if I can make it out to VS, and even drag another batch of server/desktop equipment to donate. We've been going through a lot of upgrades here at work.

Re:Linux Boot Camp 2005

[quote="Anonymous"]we could have a cabling party - think barn raising of the 19th century :) -- kim brand[/quote]

That would be great help. I'm a little anxious about the idea, having never done it, but realizing the importance of not twisting cable or crossing wires in the cable when the jacks are installed. I have another question about this, but it would be off topic, so I'll start a new thread.

- T.

Re:Linux Boot Camp 2005

I like the server idea. I am working on setting up a web, mail, samba, etc. server from command line only with no X running Gentoo. I also think that maybe there should be something that has some advanced topics. The server stuff is a good start. When samba was covered last year, more than half went out the other ear, and I tend to learn stuff quickly. I think having two is a great idea. I would also recommend a more thorough documentation. I liked having the stuff in front of me in case I got distracted and was playing around in X while the history of Linux and other stuff was being read. The only downside was when I tried to recreate the samba stuff and I had to spend time relaerning it on the net. I think more thorough documentation should be included. Also, check the burned discs. We had a hodge podge a bad and good burns. All discs were not flawless. I ended up letting someone install off my own discs I downloaded and burned. And then this guy gave me damn small linux and I was happy.

Re:Linux Boot Camp 2005

[quote="kjbrand"]maybe we could do 2 boot camps a year with difference foci :) for each.[/quote]

I like that idea. I've really never tried to set up a server (I've never had more than one PC--and technically I still don't--which is the main reason). :) But, it would be good to learn as much as I can before I move to my new house (in which, with the guidance of a few books, I'd like to wire with Cat 5e).

- T.

Re:Linux Boot Camp 2005

Basic decision: Should the Boot Camp focus be Desktop or Server?

maybe we could do 2 boot camps a year with difference foci :) for each.

Spring can be Desktop, Fall can be Server. i can't see how you can do both at one time.

it's OK if the desktop boot camp requires a machine suitable for windows xp. this one can highlight X, applications, printing, etc.

meanwhile, it's ok if the server boot camp gets into samba, mail, network isssues, etc.

if someone sticks around for six months they get both.

kim brand
www.fileengine.com

Re:Linux Boot Camp 2005

[quote="clivesay"]I think there is a minimum of 256mb of RAM.[/quote]

Really? I've heard some good things about MEPIS.

My box is an AMD Athlon 800 with 128MB RAM. Runs KDE 3.3.1 with Debian 3.1 quite nicely.

- T.

Re:Linux Boot Camp 2005

I guess it just needs to be determined where the focus of the training lies. If you want to be heavy on the GUI then I guess a KDE based distro would be best. I tend to lean on the debian/knoppix side of things so my recommendation would be MEPIS. I think there is a minimum of 256mb of RAM.

If GUI is going to be a small part, then I stick with what I said before. With the XVesa server and Fluxbox almost anything will boot into X. It seems to me it would be a shame to exclude someone because they can't afford a powerful enough box to participate. But, as I said before, I am new to all this.

Chris

Re:Linux Boot Camp 2005

Perhaps we could specify minimum requirements for the machines that participants would bring. If we have a network connection we can download nvidia drivers if needed or something. Perhaps we could plan on installing from CD or DVD a full version of the OS...Fedora Core 3 or whatever...and for people who bring in less powerful machines, just install a smaller distro or Core 1 or something...and then they'd have to look over someone's shoulder for the graphical stuff, but could still participate in the command line stuff. Most installs are pretty straight forward now, so they should be able to identify the mish-mash of hardware people might bring.

Maybe the participants should do the following...
Know the following pieces about their hardware...
a. CPU Model
b. Video Card Model
c. Sound Card Model
d. Monitor Specifications:
...Horizontal Sync Rate
...Vertical Sync Rate
...Max Resolution

And meet some minimum requirements...
I think with that info and a decent sized system say a 500 MHz Celeron or better, you can run X windows. Even just the i810 video on a motherboard will run X.

You could just demo some common X-apps, and show how X works. I'd think any home user who uses Linux needs this at the very minimum. From there you could continue into the guts of Linux either from at Ctrl-Alt-F1 command prompt or an X-term.

If a system wouldn't run X, they'd have to look over someone's shoulder for a bit.

Re:Linux Boot Camp 2005

[quote="clivesay"]
As far as X, with Fluxbox people could learn how to easily edit menus, create icons, etc.....[/quote]

Yes, a lightweight window manager is a nice compromise. It would lower the system requirements substantially.

- T.

Re:Linux Boot Camp 2005

[quote="kjbrand"]many of the participants last year barely had boxes that would run in runlevel 3 :)
<snip>
but, maybe the mission needs to be X & desktop stuff.
[/quote]

I think a desktop environment is more likely to retain Linux users in the long run. It's harder to be drawn back to Windows when you have KDE (or Gnome, or Enlightenment...) staring you in the face. Something as simple to use as Windows, but more powerful... and free.

You had a full class last year, correct? How quickly did it fill?

Is it feasible to screen interested persons based on their box (potential to do runlevel 5), and still be able to fill the class?

- T.

Re:Linux Boot Camp 2005

Speaking from a total beginner perspective here so be gentle :)

I have just been learning Linux for a year from a complete MS user perspective. My vote would be a small distro like Damn Small Linux. It is very light but has alot of features. I have used a Feather remaster for my not for profit refurbishing old PC's but have recently converted my remaster to a DSL base for added features. I work with John Crooks at Virtual Scavengers.

In less than a years time I was remastering Knoppix based distro's so it seems that maybe it would be a good candidate. You can teach some about X with Fluxbox and also teach CLI and networking basics. The distro is very light so it will run on literally anything with at least 32mb ram.

I was hoping to attend the bootcamp for the learning experience but I would be willing to put my limited Linux knowledge out there to help. I would love to learn some networking and learn alot more about compiling, cat, grep, etc....

As far as X, with Fluxbox people could learn how to easily edit menus, create icons, etc.....

If you would like to use DSL but wish there were a few more apps included, I would be willing to remaster in whatever additional apps you want for the bootcamp.

Something to think about.

Chris Livesay
No Computer Left Behind Inc.

Re:Linux Boot Camp 2005

last year we used fedora...i'd propose an rpm/redhat based distro, fedora 3 or maybe caos - but only because i have some familarity with these. the boot camp would certainly benefit from someone - or a team - with a broader experience than i have presenting.

a problem with X is the display/horse power requirements. many of the participants last year barely had boxes that would run in runlevel 3 :)

my mission was to show gearheads what's under the covers: install issues, processes, basic admin, mail, services, windows integration features, basic networking, etc. that's a lot to cover in 12 hrs, and probably not possible if you add X and desktop stuff. but, maybe the mission needs to be X & desktop stuff.

i'll help anyway i can - but i'm sorta narrowly focussed/limited to stuff my FileEngine does: www.fileengine.com.

kim

Re:Linux Boot Camp 2005

Gentoo is great, but unless your aim is to scare the crap put of newbies, it's not the distribution to start with. :lol: I mean, to manually install even a stage 3 installation can take the better part of a day (if you start in the morning)... so it also doesn't lend itself well to an educational offering where you want to do other things beyond just installing the software. There's always Gentoo-based dists, like Vidalinux, I guess.

Of course, my own preference would be for Debian 3.1, or something Debian-based like Libranet.

- T.

Re: Linux Boot Camp 2005

Kim, what did you do last year? Fedora?
I'd be interested in seeing the proposed outline.
I think several people mentioned they'd like some more review of common graphical tools and X windows.

Re:Linux Boot Camp 2005

I would recommend Gentoo for the linux distro of choice. I attended the linux bootcamp last year and liked the idea. I was disappointed in the fact that we didn't cover X windows though. (Though there was an attempt, but I don't think he got it working or something) I have a fully built Gentoo linux server running Apache right now. Mail server to come. The thing is, it takes a long time for compiling. You definitely learn much more about the workings of linux than from doing an rpm based distro. I like SuSE as an rpm based distro, but I think Gentoo would be more fun. I woud think that a computer running DistCC (server with dual processors and over a gig of ram) could help distribute the compiling load, though my knowledge in DistCC is limited. Gentoo has an option to install packages off the package CD. I don't think that last year's bootcamp was the best thing to really get deep.

Re: Linux Boot Camp 2005

- Will the topics be the same?
- Which distribution will be focused on?

- T.

Re: Linux Boot Camp 2005

Although I'm very busy in March I will try and help out. I may be going to the Novell Customer Communities Leadership Conf. Did anyone else from CINLUG get invited and plan on going? Mar 18/19/20. Plus remember that Mar 26/27 is Easter weekend.

Re:Linux Boot Camp 2005

re CAT5E: no brainer....just do it. simple. we could have a cabling party - think barn raising of the 19th century :)

re Spring & Fall Boot Camp: do we have a majority ready to vote for two?

kim brand
www.fileengine.com